Author Topic: Which turbo is the best for you?  (Read 12273 times)

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FunkyPhil

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Re: Which turbo is the best for you?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2013, 11:44:26 PM »
Quote from: funkyp
maybe the differences are 06 and 06H differences??

As you can see in the 06 20g dyno, lag is most definately NOT an issue and that should be the first step in SQ turbo upgrades period.

Better tuning and that wouldve been an easy 58-6000rpm pull with power nearly meeting TQ numbers.  :wink:

Thats what you need. I dont really see the point in retaining the stock housing. Having a T3 flange added to a stock manifold and modifying the downpipe wouldnt be much over $100.

Quote from: spoon32
Photos as promised. Remimber.... that is a "true TD06" from the aussie starions. LOL

http://s1101.photobucket.com/albums/g428/sq_spoon32/

Quote from: funkyp
Aftermarket Turbo comparisons

-------18g 05H----20G 06H----GT3076----SC6062----95-98HX35/8blade
IND----50.3---------52.6----------57----------60------------56-----
EXD----68------------68----------76.2---------79------------83-----

Turbine
IND-----56----------67.2----------60-----------71----------69.5-
EXD----49.2---------58.8---------55-----------62------------60--
HP-----300+--------400+--------500+--------600+--------500+

NOTE: There are about 60 million different variations of the HX35. So be sure which one you are buying!!

The HY35 actually falls nicely between in the 3076 range. Similar compressor but larger turbine wheel. Just be mindful of the turbine housing cm/AR
87 Conquest Tsi: 519whp 519wtq 7.09@102--10.95@122
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FunkyPhil

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Re: Which turbo is the best for you?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2013, 11:46:16 PM »
Quote from: mitsusqueeshee
I've been running an old fashioned T3/T4 Garrett AR 60 / 63 hotside.  What do yall think about this combo....any dynos with something close?...I've been thinking of upgrading to something bigger, and ball bearing..... trying to better comprehend this turbo stuff for years....





Quote from: funkyp
This is why I needed to make this post.

AR says absolutely nothing about a turbo.
You have a 60AR Comp Housing and a 63AR Tubine......
The wheels tell the story.

T3/T4 says nothing aswell. There are 600,000 variations of the T3 and T4 wheels. Sorry man, you have to get actually info.

Maybe a PN on the turbo somewhere could help.

Otherwise pull it apart and measue the wheels.

Is it a 60-1? what trim??

Quote from: spoon32
Thank you phinko for the best lead in possible to a topic I was going to bring to light next anyways.......... "A/R and what it means to you"

What is A/R? Exactly what it says.... area divided by radius. More specifically the ratio between the nozzle area at the scroll entry and the radius between the centerline of the shaft and the centroid of this area.
What does A/R tell me? As phinko pointed out.... less than what most people believe. The A/R gives a ROUGH indication of the amount of TORQUE the exhaust gasses can exert on the turbine blades. Hince the "A" being symbolic of area reduction or force multiplication...... and "R" being a moment arm or force multiplication.
Whats the rest of the story then? Once again as phinko pointed out, the turbine wheel diameter is key.
Whats the "?best?" way to define a turbine configuration? A/R*(turbine inducer dia./2) or the A/R times the wheel radius. This properly defines the FLOW AREA. Of course big number=big flow and slow response.... small number=low flow and fast response. (I decided I am no longer going to use the word lag)
This is the major adjustment area, and of course once that is narrowed down there are smaller adjustments which can be made...... # of blades, trim, housing porting.

Example: TD05-20G (8cm^2) Vs. TD06-20G (8cm^2)
Analysis: Since MHI rates turbine housings with the "A" in A/R only, obviously both turbos have the same "A". Although I have never seen this documented as proof.... i can provide photos of these side by side showing the castings are near identical which would indicate the "R" is the same also........=same A/R.
Multiple conversions agree that an (8cm^2) housing is roughly a .57A/R. ( http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31019)
If the A/R is the same, why does the TD06 offer more flow and less exhaust manifold pressure than the TD05??
TD05 inducer-2.18"    TD06 inducer-2.54"
Using the formula above to find the flow areas then gives you:
TD05 - .62     TD06-.72   <---- and theres the answer
87 Conquest Tsi: 519whp 519wtq 7.09@102--10.95@122
CLICK TO SEE BUILD

FunkyPhil

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Re: Which turbo is the best for you?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2013, 12:05:39 AM »
Quote from: mitsusqueeshee
:oops: ....Sorry about that, Its TO4E 57 trim stage III

Compressor

.60 A/R
Inducer 2.299 in      /      60mm
Exducer 2.950 in       /     75mm

Turbine

.63 A/R
Inducer 2.560 in       /      65mm
Exducer 2.230 in       /      57mm

Quote from: spoon32
Quote from: mitsusqueeshee
:oops: ....Sorry about that, Its TO4E 57 trim stage III

Compressor

.60 A/R
Inducer 2.299 in      /      60mm
Exducer 2.950 in       /     75mm

Turbine

.63 A/R
Inducer 2.560 in       /      65mm
Exducer 2.230 in       /      57mm

Base on your specs you posted..... looks like you have a turbine flow size of .8...... which seems about right for a street/strip car.
Your compressor on the other hand seems grossly undersized in flow.

Quote from: funkyp
An E cover aswell isnt really ideal in a high HP car. Especially ones like ours that require a large amount of pressure get there.

Quote from: mitsusqueeshee
......So you're saying, I could use a bigger cold side.....kind of what I was thinking too.  This turbo spools quite early also. :D  If I'm not mistaken this turbo is supposed to flow 53 lbs./min....678 CFM

Quote from: spoon32
If I'm not mistaken, a 57 wheel will flow approx 40lbs/min @ 1bar.
Something else to consider is T-series turbos (not to be confused with T3 or T4 turbos) are about the oldest design you could run. These turbos were designed around WWII so you can imagine they leave alot to be desired in terms of flow characteristics and efficencies. A T3 or T4 turbo like you have was designed around the 1970's.


Cool, so they must have had the 2.6 being designed on the otherside of the room in mind!!! Should work great! 

Quote from: mitsusqueeshee
Quote from: spoon32
If I'm not mistaken, a 57 wheel will flow approx 40lbs/min @ 1bar.
Something else to consider is T-series turbos (not to be confused with T3 or T4 turbos) are about the oldest design you could run. These turbos were designed around WWII so you can imagine they leave alot to be desired in terms of flow characteristics and efficencies. A T3 or T4 turbo like you have was designed around the 1970's.

Yeah, I know that these are dinosaur turbos, and I'm looking to upgrade to a GT or better ball bearing turbo.  I live on a small island, and my car will probably NEVER see a dyno, so I need to copy cat a set up like one of you smart guys that have done their R/D and also did some dyno tuning. ^  :wink:  hint....hint  :wink: ^
87 Conquest Tsi: 519whp 519wtq 7.09@102--10.95@122
CLICK TO SEE BUILD

FunkyPhil

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Re: Which turbo is the best for you?
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2013, 11:14:44 AM »
END
87 Conquest Tsi: 519whp 519wtq 7.09@102--10.95@122
CLICK TO SEE BUILD